ThePumpkins.net

Ok, I've been pondering this one for a while and come to think of it...

Haven't we already heard the revived Pumpkins?

REALLY!

OK ask yourself,

Do Billy and Jimmy represent the core members of the Smashing Pumpkins to you?

And do you feel that this new project will be the Pumpkins with or without Darcy and James?

Well, if so haven't they already revived the Pumpkins with ZWAN?

Ah I knew this would be a topic about Zwan and the new Pumpkins sound, hehe...
I don't think we can judge the new Pumpkins until we've heard something from Zeitgeist and at least know the whole lineup.
I actually liked Zwan but I know Zeitgeist will be a lot of different than Mary Star Of The Sea. I don't think any 2 albums that Billy has done sound the same.

That title was misleading!

I see what your getting at, but Zwan wasn't called The Smashing Pumpkins, and I'm assuming Billy said many times that Zwan was completely different. Plus there was an extra guitarist. I guess there was a chick bassist too (that seems to be re-occuring, unless Eric Avery got in).

Why don't we just say the new White Stripes!

The Smashing Pumpkins, or any band for that matter, is more than just whos in it. Its about the mentality and image of the band. Zwan were way too happy and not aggressive enough to be compared to the pumpkins. Billy wrote completely different songs for Zwan than he would have written if the pumpkins never split up.

Having said that though, all the pumpkin albums sound different and they constantly changed their image and sound; so who knows: maybe zwan could have been the next pumpkins. But Billy has moved on since then. He's very progressive in his songwriting and i dont think anyone can oredict what sort of music hes going to make next. But we do know its gonna be good!

What I am hearing is that Billy never makes the same album twice - agreed. I get the feeling everyone just wants to hear some new Billy Corgan. I'm excited as well...but I am trying to determine what makes it SP this time and not Zwan or something else? -Is the entire Pumpkins legacy determined by Billy? What if Darcy and James formed a band with two new members and called it Smashing Pumpkins? Then we could have twice the excitement!

He'll write different music then he would have if he was in Zwan, so it's not Zwan. Not that he'll go back to the classic pumpkins, but it will maintain some kind of pumpkins qualities, more so then Zwan.

Billy has always said that the band has a soul, or a spirit, that sort of thing. He didnt call Zwan the smashing pumpkins because it wasnt realy true to the intentions of the smashing pumpkins as an entity. This is why i am so hopefull for the new album to be great, he has called it the smashing pumpkins and he wouldnt bother to do that unless it was true to the intentions of the smashing pumpkins. Plus, dont count james and darcy out just yet...

the revived pumpkins. no way, this is the pumpkins, theres nothing preceding the name, its the smashing pumpkins, youv heared zwan, the jimmy chamberlin complex, and billy corgan, and now the smashing pumpkins are off hiatus,

I have had this discussion with so many people on so many message boards. My initial reaction was that SP with D'arcy and Jimmy would be just Zwan. But I soon realized that's not the case. They were consciously trying not to sound like SP while they were in Zwan, with varying levels of success. The other members of Zwan also had some level of impact on how that band sounded like.

the new album won't sound like zwan or any of their solo material it will be true smashing pumpkin rawk if they made pumpkin songs with zwan people would of called them 2.

Ok so if the other members in Zwan helped shape that sound then didn't Darcy and James help Shape the Pumpkins Sound and thus it would not be the Pumpkin's sound without them? And noone answered my question...could James and Darcy just as easily start a band and call it Smashing Pumpkins since James and Billy were the original founders?

:downword

billy said he and jimmy fed of eachother, during recording, and james or darcy didnt write the music, cept james' songs

ps, did james write the music for plume, the pi booklet is confusing

but thats what billy says.

You know, there's definately some merit to the argument that James and D'Arcy had a major impact on the Pumpkins' sound, but, here's my question - when D'Arcy left, and Melissa Auf Der Maur repleaced her, why did the Pumpkins sound 100% exactly the same live as they ever did with D'Arcy... or in some cases, better? Blasphemy? I don't know. To me, D'Arcy was kind of "just there" and played bass because she was available and didn't suck. Live, she just kinda stood there, like the music didn't even phase her. I mean, I know James comes off as something of an introvert, but you could tell James cared about what he was doing. I never got that feeling from D'Arcy, and maybe that's just me.

From the understanding I have, the whole James issue really comes from James' end anyway. D'Arcy had to go because of her issues, and James took her side, and that was one of the major factors that played into the break-up. Okay, I get that. James and D'Arcy have history, so it makes sense. Billy and Jimmy wanted the band to keep going, but James didn't want to keep going without D'Arcy. Two real choices come up, then - break up the band, or dump James and shake up the line-up again. With Machina not doing well, and all the hassles Billy had with the label over Machina II, it probably led Billy to think maybe the band's time had passed and it was time to end it.

What we have now is probably what would have been if Billy had made a different choice. Maybe the fences can be mended, and maybe they can't, who knows?

Zwan was something complately different. Same songwriter going in a different direction with a signature sound. It's like John Fogerty outside of CCW. Sure, there's a similar sound, but it's not the same as the band that was. Some of that does have to do with the other musicians, but a lot of it comes from the intent and the direction Zwan was going in. it wasn't supposed to be the Pumpkins with new members, or else, it would have sounded like them, but they really didn't. In fact, if Zwan was a Pumpkins album, they actually would have taken an entire step backwards from the progression in sound the Pumpkins made on Adore and thru the Machinas, and made what was, in essense, a pure rock album, and not the synth-rock operas the Pumpkins had been creating up to that point.

No.

Y not?

TheMaverickMJ -

I respect your opinion that D'arcy sucks but she was always more into it than James - (she had to sing back up vocals). Also - any bassplayer in the world is replaceable for the simple fact that bass players don't get ten minute solos so thats why the band still rocked with a new bassist. They also STILL ROCKED without Jimmy. Also, It seems everyone forgets that Billy hand picked D'arcy to be in the band. So you're saying Billy just got some retard to play bass in his dream band???

In closing please stop treating D'arcy like the band's step-child when she was there before Jimmy and participated in more of the band's overall work.

very well said. ^^