ThePumpkins.net

Thank you.

stephen_bayne link=topic=1915.msg33648#msg33648 date=1188957126]
It's a sloid album that shows the band is in a good place again after all the post MCIS turmoil and a promise of what's to come.


What Band? Oh you mean Billy and Jimmy....

and You are referring to the post MCIS turmoil that produced "ADORE" and "Machina" - PLEEEEEAASSE bring on more post MCIS turmoil!!!

I can aswer your question - what's to come is more Solo work from Billy...

...with Jimmy acting as his glorified drum machine.

This album IS mediocre - thanks for saying it J.Z.







And how come the people who "So-called" support this project the most are able to take the position of "Well u can't expect them to make anything as great as MCIS"....WHY NOT??? Maybe thats my problem - I actually thought Billy had it in him to make another GREAT album...maybe I should just accept mediocre from the best band ever - hmmmm - NO THANKS.

wow.......what are you trying to say believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what the fuck are you talking about??

Believe link=topic=1915.msg33669#msg33669 date=1188996206]
stephen_bayne link=topic=1915.msg33648#msg33648 date=1188957126]
It's a sloid album that shows the band is in a good place again after all the post MCIS turmoil and a promise of what's to come.


What Band? Oh you mean Billy and Jimmy....

and You are referring to the post MCIS turmoil that produced "ADORE" and "Machina" - PLEEEEEAASSE bring on more post MCIS turmoil!!!

I can aswer your question - what's to come is more Solo work from Billy...

...with Jimmy acting as his glorified drum machine.

This album IS mediocre - thanks for saying it J.Z.







And how come the people who "So-called" support this project the most are able to take the position of "Well u can't expect them to make anything as great as MCIS"....WHY NOT??? Maybe thats my problem - I actually thought Billy had it in him to make another GREAT album...maybe I should just accept mediocre from the best band ever - hmmmm - NO THANKS.


Everything is simple - CORGAN is Pumpkins, and you must realize that, .. and I think everyone allready knows that you don't like the new album ... we get it! It's ok now ..

White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33680#msg33680 date=1189000385]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33669#msg33669 date=1188996206]
stephen_bayne link=topic=1915.msg33648#msg33648 date=1188957126]
It's a sloid album that shows the band is in a good place again after all the post MCIS turmoil and a promise of what's to come.


What Band? Oh you mean Billy and Jimmy....

and You are referring to the post MCIS turmoil that produced "ADORE" and "Machina" - PLEEEEEAASSE bring on more post MCIS turmoil!!!

I can aswer your question - what's to come is more Solo work from Billy...

...with Jimmy acting as his glorified drum machine.

This album IS mediocre - thanks for saying it J.Z.







And how come the people who "So-called" support this project the most are able to take the position of "Well u can't expect them to make anything as great as MCIS"....WHY NOT??? Maybe thats my problem - I actually thought Billy had it in him to make another GREAT album...maybe I should just accept mediocre from the best band ever - hmmmm - NO THANKS.


Everything is simple - CORGAN is Pumpkins, and you must realize that, .. and I think everyone allready knows that you don't like the new album ... we get it! It's ok now ..




HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!! NICE!!

i thought this album was the third best pumpkin album created. It was different, it was original. You're not going to get another mcis or siamese dream, or a gish, or machina, or adore. it's different. it's different but good.

Believe link=topic=1915.msg33669#msg33669 date=1188996206]
stephen_bayne link=topic=1915.msg33648#msg33648 date=1188957126]
It's a sloid album that shows the band is in a good place again after all the post MCIS turmoil and a promise of what's to come.


What Band? Oh you mean Billy and Jimmy....

and You are referring to the post MCIS turmoil that produced "ADORE" and "Machina" - PLEEEEEAASSE bring on more post MCIS turmoil!!!

I can aswer your question - what's to come is more Solo work from Billy...

...with Jimmy acting as his glorified drum machine.

This album IS mediocre - thanks for saying it J.Z.







And how come the people who "So-called" support this project the most are able to take the position of "Well u can't expect them to make anything as great as MCIS"....WHY NOT??? Maybe thats my problem - I actually thought Billy had it in him to make another GREAT album...maybe I should just accept mediocre from the best band ever - hmmmm - NO THANKS.

Upon reading that last post, I realized that the last statement I issued ("a single drumtrack can't make a mediocre album great") was an incomplete statement and was just begging to be misinterpreted. Sorry, Believe, it's nice to have you agree with me for once but I guess it was on false grounds. ^_^;;

What I meant to say is, a single drum track isn't going to make a mediocre album good unless the material is strong to begin with. United States is an solid song because Zeitgeist is a solid album.

Is it the best work they could have possibly done, given time and circumstances (lord knows they've had plenty of time)? I can't answer that honestly. You'd have to ask someone who picks favorites among Pumpkins albums. I'm not one of those people, and will not openly admit that any of their albums was any better than the others. Sure, some receive more air time on the radio and more playtime in my own cd player, but that doesn't mean I consider MCIS a better album than Adore simply because I listen to the former significantly more than the latter. In fact, I often find myself burning out on MCIS and returning to Adore as a sort of creature comfort...but, as usual, I'm digressing the hell out of this topic.

For what it's worth to you, Believe, I've never taken the position that the reformed Pumpkins somehow don't have it in them to acheive their former glory...though the band's popular recognition may not be the same as it was in the 90's, I believe they have it in them to revive the Pumpkins' sound.

I expected nothing more from this reunion than pure, unadulterated Pumpkins rock...and, in my opinion, that is exactly what I received with Zeitgeist. The new album isn't any better or worse than their past work...it's just different, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

(On another note, though, I agree that the pumpkins put out some of their best work in the post-MCIS havoc...Adore and Machina don't get nearly as much credit as they should.)

wow, now it makes sense jz. i totally agree.

White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33680#msg33680 date=1189000385]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33669#msg33669 date=1188996206]
stephen_bayne link=topic=1915.msg33648#msg33648 date=1188957126]
It's a sloid album that shows the band is in a good place again after all the post MCIS turmoil and a promise of what's to come.


What Band? Oh you mean Billy and Jimmy....

and You are referring to the post MCIS turmoil that produced "ADORE" and "Machina" - PLEEEEEAASSE bring on more post MCIS turmoil!!!

I can aswer your question - what's to come is more Solo work from Billy...

...with Jimmy acting as his glorified drum machine.

This album IS mediocre - thanks for saying it J.Z.







And how come the people who "So-called" support this project the most are able to take the position of "Well u can't expect them to make anything as great as MCIS"....WHY NOT??? Maybe thats my problem - I actually thought Billy had it in him to make another GREAT album...maybe I should just accept mediocre from the best band ever - hmmmm - NO THANKS.


Everything is simple - CORGAN is Pumpkins, and you must realize that, .. and I think everyone allready knows that you don't like the new album ... we get it! It's ok now ..



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!

Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]
White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33680#msg33680 date=1189000385]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33669#msg33669 date=1188996206]
stephen_bayne link=topic=1915.msg33648#msg33648 date=1188957126]
It's a sloid album that shows the band is in a good place again after all the post MCIS turmoil and a promise of what's to come.


What Band? Oh you mean Billy and Jimmy....

and You are referring to the post MCIS turmoil that produced "ADORE" and "Machina" - PLEEEEEAASSE bring on more post MCIS turmoil!!!

I can aswer your question - what's to come is more Solo work from Billy...

...with Jimmy acting as his glorified drum machine.

This album IS mediocre - thanks for saying it J.Z.







And how come the people who "So-called" support this project the most are able to take the position of "Well u can't expect them to make anything as great as MCIS"....WHY NOT??? Maybe thats my problem - I actually thought Billy had it in him to make another GREAT album...maybe I should just accept mediocre from the best band ever - hmmmm - NO THANKS.


Everything is simple - CORGAN is Pumpkins, and you must realize that, .. and I think everyone allready knows that you don't like the new album ... we get it! It's ok now ..



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!




...oh god spare me....

go zeitgeist! go billy! go jimmy! even go ginger, lisa, and jeff!

Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but it's only your truth ..

"So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????" - why not? Just think about it ..

White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33709#msg33709 date=1189043797]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but it's only your truth ..

"So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????" - why not? Just think about it ..




agreed

Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]
White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33680#msg33680 date=1189000385]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33669#msg33669 date=1188996206]
stephen_bayne link=topic=1915.msg33648#msg33648 date=1188957126]
It's a sloid album that shows the band is in a good place again after all the post MCIS turmoil and a promise of what's to come.


What Band? Oh you mean Billy and Jimmy....

and You are referring to the post MCIS turmoil that produced "ADORE" and "Machina" - PLEEEEEAASSE bring on more post MCIS turmoil!!!

I can aswer your question - what's to come is more Solo work from Billy...

...with Jimmy acting as his glorified drum machine.

This album IS mediocre - thanks for saying it J.Z.







And how come the people who "So-called" support this project the most are able to take the position of "Well u can't expect them to make anything as great as MCIS"....WHY NOT??? Maybe thats my problem - I actually thought Billy had it in him to make another GREAT album...maybe I should just accept mediocre from the best band ever - hmmmm - NO THANKS.


Everything is simple - CORGAN is Pumpkins, and you must realize that, .. and I think everyone allready knows that you don't like the new album ... we get it! It's ok now ..



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!





I didnt start all this argument.. i didnt want a running thread on who is the smashing pumpkins. i just love the music!!! i dont even know what im saying any more. hahahaha. if this makes sense to people then i congradulate you,because i dont even know what im talking about.

doomsdayclock link=topic=1915.msg33711#msg33711 date=1189045111]
White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33709#msg33709 date=1189043797]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but it's only your truth ..

"So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????" - why not? Just think about it ..




agreed



OK - I see where you guys are coming from now. Billy ultimately could never be in a band because he is the band - the man actually consumes any effort put forth by musicians around him and it all becomes his work. - I can understand now how u think zeitgeist is good music with logic like this.


OH yeah - But I am glad that someone finally admitted that Zwan existed and that basically proves my point that this new incarnation is nothing more than a new Zwan.

Thanks for making your thoughts clear on this guys:)

The fact is Billy has never let anyone influence his music besides James and Darcy...which means they are the only band he has truly ever had and thats why he made his best music early in his career when they were around.

Getting back on topic - My thoughts of Zeitgeist Now?

I still like 2 tracks - the rest - Oh Well....



(U all can stop defending zeitgeist now, I'm sure Billy has lawyers to do that. hahahahaha)

Believe link=topic=1915.msg33727#msg33727 date=1189082415]
doomsdayclock link=topic=1915.msg33711#msg33711 date=1189045111]
White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33709#msg33709 date=1189043797]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but it's only your truth ..

"So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????" - why not? Just think about it ..




agreed



OK - I see where you guys are coming from now. Billy ultimately could never be in a band because he is the band - the man actually consumes any effort put forth by musicians around him and it all becomes his work. - I can understand now how u think zeitgeist is good music with logic like this.


OH yeah - But I am glad that someone finally admitted that Zwan existed and that basically proves my point that this new incarnation is nothing more than a new Zwan.

Thanks for making your thoughts clear on this guys:)

The fact is Billy has never let anyone influence his music besides James and Darcy...which means they are the only band he has truly ever had and thats why he made his best music early in his career when they were around.

Getting back on topic - My thoughts of Zeitgeist Now?

I still like 2 tracks - the rest - Oh Well....



(U all can stop defending zeitgeist now, I'm sure Billy has lawyers to do that. hahahahaha)



Mmm...the insincere chumminess of your post is telling me that it was probably just meant to bait Zeitgeist supporters into a foamy-mouthed rant. I'll do my best not to take that bait...

Anyways, now that we're on the topic of the people in Corgan's life that affect his music, I'll just remind you that you were the one who, in a previous post, shared your woes over the lack of competent production on the new album. Why, then, if Billy Corgan has never done anything but negate the talents of those around him, did you pine for the old days of Butch Vig and Flood? I mean, if they never really made a difference, then...(I've already stated my opinion on the album's production and personnel)

And, as far as Zwan goes, if you for a second thought that MSOTS and Zeitgeist were written and performed in the same spirit, then you are sorely mistaken. There are infinitely many inconsistancies in the "Zwan II" argument...not the least of which being that Zwan was a deliberate departure from the Pumpkins' former sound, while Zeitgeist was a deliberate return to it. With songs like "God & Country" and "Death From Above", you could probably say that Zeitgeist has more in common with TFE than it ever did with MSOTS. The "TFE II" argument, however, is also fatally flawed. Honestly, I shouldn't have to describe my reasoning behind that one.

Thoughts of Zeitgeist now...

Currently appreciating the nuances of "Pomp". =) Such a funny, yet sad song.

pomp and dfa were two songs i didn't get into when the cd came out but now i listen to them both a lot, especially dfa.

Jeffrey Zeitgeist link=topic=1915.msg33736#msg33736 date=1189094295]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33727#msg33727 date=1189082415]
doomsdayclock link=topic=1915.msg33711#msg33711 date=1189045111]
White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33709#msg33709 date=1189043797]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but it's only your truth ..

"So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????" - why not? Just think about it ..




agreed



OK - I see where you guys are coming from now. Billy ultimately could never be in a band because he is the band - the man actually consumes any effort put forth by musicians around him and it all becomes his work. - I can understand now how u think zeitgeist is good music with logic like this.


OH yeah - But I am glad that someone finally admitted that Zwan existed and that basically proves my point that this new incarnation is nothing more than a new Zwan.

Thanks for making your thoughts clear on this guys:)

The fact is Billy has never let anyone influence his music besides James and Darcy...which means they are the only band he has truly ever had and thats why he made his best music early in his career when they were around.

Getting back on topic - My thoughts of Zeitgeist Now?

I still like 2 tracks - the rest - Oh Well....



(U all can stop defending zeitgeist now, I'm sure Billy has lawyers to do that. hahahahaha)



Mmm...the insincere chumminess of your post is telling me that it was probably just meant to bait Zeitgeist supporters into a foamy-mouthed rant. I'll do my best not to take that bait...

Anyways, now that we're on the topic of the people in Corgan's life that affect his music, I'll just remind you that you were the one who, in a previous post, shared your woes over the lack of competent production on the new album. Why, then, if Billy Corgan has never done anything but negate the talents of those around him, did you pine for the old days of Butch Vig and Flood? I mean, if they never really made a difference, then...(I've already stated my opinion on the album's production and personnel)

And, as far as Zwan goes, if you for a second thought that MSOTS and Zeitgeist were written and performed in the same spirit, then you are sorely mistaken. There are infinitely many inconsistancies in the "Zwan II" argument...not the least of which being that Zwan was a deliberate departure from the Pumpkins' former sound, while Zeitgeist was a deliberate return to it. With songs like "God & Country" and "Death From Above", you could probably say that Zeitgeist has more in common with TFE than it ever did with MSOTS. The "TFE II" argument, however, is also fatally flawed. Honestly, I shouldn't have to describe my reasoning behind that one.

Thoughts of Zeitgeist now...

Currently appreciating the nuances of "Pomp". =) Such a funny, yet sad song.



Just to be clear - I actually give credit to the OTHER people involved in the projects. YOu and people like u are the ones who say Billy IS The pumpkins or Billy was Zwan...since when does one person make up any band???? I totally see SP being seperate from Zwan for the fact that the people in the band were not the same - thats why this band could never be the Pumpkins because the chemistry will never be the same between Billy, Jeff, Ginger, and Jimmy as it was with Billy, Jimmy, D'arcy and James - how could it be???

ZWAN-
There were 5 musicians in Zwan and for you to make the case that Billy basically uses musicians as his puppets I think applies now - but I actually believe he has let the other musicians he's worked with influence his other projects in the past...otherwise why work with them????? He could have easily done the Billy and Jimmy show years ago when he opted to do the Zwan thing. IF your argument is that the only difference between these bands is the way Billy decides to play his songs it still means that everything Billy has ever done have basically been Billy solo projects. IMO that's incorrect, even Billy has stated how much James and Darcy influenced original pumpkins musical direction.

"There's a lot of chemistry in the band that the outside world could never witness. In our band, D'arcy is the moral conscience -- it's really hard to do something if D'arcy thinks its fucked."


Billy needs a filter whether it's D'arcy or Flood or Butch. Zeitgeist is just a prime example why - at least thats the impression I get when I hear it.

im so sick of this bullshit!

Believe link=topic=1915.msg33773#msg33773 date=1189172277]
Jeffrey Zeitgeist link=topic=1915.msg33736#msg33736 date=1189094295]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33727#msg33727 date=1189082415]
doomsdayclock link=topic=1915.msg33711#msg33711 date=1189045111]
White_Spider link=topic=1915.msg33709#msg33709 date=1189043797]
Believe link=topic=1915.msg33694#msg33694 date=1189010337]



Corgan is the Pumpkins - Wow, a true fan of Billy - How did I know???

So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????

Such knowledgeable fans here.
Hey Rob - U should have just named this thread "Who else thinks the world of Zeitgeist" - then u wouldnt be taken off guard vy people with different opininons.


I guess I should just say what everyone wants to hear instead of the truth...ZEITGEIST IS THE PUMPKINS BEST MEDIOCRE ALBUM EVER!!!!

GO BILLY GO!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, but it's only your truth ..

"So I guess TFE was a Pumpkins album???? And Mary Stasr of Sea????" - why not? Just think about it ..




agreed



OK - I see where you guys are coming from now. Billy ultimately could never be in a band because he is the band - the man actually consumes any effort put forth by musicians around him and it all becomes his work. - I can understand now how u think zeitgeist is good music with logic like this.


OH yeah - But I am glad that someone finally admitted that Zwan existed and that basically proves my point that this new incarnation is nothing more than a new Zwan.

Thanks for making your thoughts clear on this guys:)

The fact is Billy has never let anyone influence his music besides James and Darcy...which means they are the only band he has truly ever had and thats why he made his best music early in his career when they were around.

Getting back on topic - My thoughts of Zeitgeist Now?

I still like 2 tracks - the rest - Oh Well....



(U all can stop defending zeitgeist now, I'm sure Billy has lawyers to do that. hahahahaha)



Mmm...the insincere chumminess of your post is telling me that it was probably just meant to bait Zeitgeist supporters into a foamy-mouthed rant. I'll do my best not to take that bait...

Anyways, now that we're on the topic of the people in Corgan's life that affect his music, I'll just remind you that you were the one who, in a previous post, shared your woes over the lack of competent production on the new album. Why, then, if Billy Corgan has never done anything but negate the talents of those around him, did you pine for the old days of Butch Vig and Flood? I mean, if they never really made a difference, then...(I've already stated my opinion on the album's production and personnel)

And, as far as Zwan goes, if you for a second thought that MSOTS and Zeitgeist were written and performed in the same spirit, then you are sorely mistaken. There are infinitely many inconsistancies in the "Zwan II" argument...not the least of which being that Zwan was a deliberate departure from the Pumpkins' former sound, while Zeitgeist was a deliberate return to it. With songs like "God & Country" and "Death From Above", you could probably say that Zeitgeist has more in common with TFE than it ever did with MSOTS. The "TFE II" argument, however, is also fatally flawed. Honestly, I shouldn't have to describe my reasoning behind that one.

Thoughts of Zeitgeist now...

Currently appreciating the nuances of "Pomp". =) Such a funny, yet sad song.



Just to be clear - I actually give credit to the OTHER people involved in the projects. YOu and people like u are the ones who say Billy IS The pumpkins or Billy was Zwan...since when does one person make up any band???? I totally see SP being seperate from Zwan for the fact that the people in the band were not the same - thats why this band could never be the Pumpkins because the chemistry will never be the same between Billy, Jeff, Ginger, and Jimmy as it was with Billy, Jimmy, D'arcy and James - how could it be???

ZWAN-
There were 5 musicians in Zwan and for you to make the case that Billy basically uses musicians as his puppets I think applies now - but I actually believe he has let the other musicians he's worked with influence his other projects in the past...otherwise why work with them????? He could have easily done the Billy and Jimmy show years ago when he opted to do the Zwan thing. IF your argument is that the only difference between these bands is the way Billy decides to play his songs it still means that everything Billy has ever done have basically been Billy solo projects. IMO that's incorrect, even Billy has stated how much James and Darcy influenced original pumpkins musical direction.

"There's a lot of chemistry in the band that the outside world could never witness. In our band, D'arcy is the moral conscience -- it's really hard to do something if D'arcy thinks its fucked."


Billy needs a filter whether it's D'arcy or Flood or Butch. Zeitgeist is just a prime example why - at least thats the impression I get when I hear it.


What are you doing, arguing against your own point? You're the one that said Billy ignores the input of others and commandeers any project he's involved in...I was simply brining to light the inconsistancies in your argument by referencing your comments on the Pumpkins' past producers. Read between the lines, please...it's never been my argument that Billy could do a Pumpkins' album alone. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he needs James and D'arcy for the reunion. You see?

Meh - that quote from Billy about D'arcy. For what it's worth, D'arcy was strongly against the new sound of Adore, yet most fans agree it was a resounding success - me included. My point? She wasn't nearly as infallible a filter as you're making her out to be. Honestly, out of all of the members to ever join and leave the group, she was, by far, the most expendable.

very true, melissa filled the hole easily, and melissa didn't drin all the time