ThePumpkins.net

MCIS is the greatest album ever made. He should be very proud of it. And it's nice to see him acknowledging that and not dismissing it like he seems to do with old SP stuff sometimes.

Yeah, what I don't get is the 'excuses' he makes for Adore, Machina and Zeitgeist.

For me, and a lot of other fans (with excellent taste in music, the scores for those albums are ten, ten and (well maybe just me here) ten.

But they weren't big sellers. Not like Mellon Collie. Each album sells a little less, and then Billy comes along with excuses like:
"We should have called Adore the pumpkins acoustic album"
and "Machina wasn't the album it was meant to be (double)"
and "We hadn't made an album for seven years, so I wasn't even trying with Zeitgeist"
(not actual quotes )

He never comes out and says "Hey they were great fucking records. The public is what is fucked up."

And that's the truth to me.

Well, I agree with him on Machina. As it is I can only rate it about 8.5, but I feel there's a potential 10 when I hear the double.

But yeah, Adore and Zeitgeist don't need excuses (other than the poor vocals on Zeitgeist )

I hate to say this Frank, but some of those excuses were right, of course I have different excuses

Adore, an amazing Gothic, Folk, Jazz, Electronic album that the sweaty headbanging dumb asses just couldn't understand, so they went and listened to Smells Like Teen Spirit, shot up some heroin and lost the four or five last brain cells they had left.

Machina / The Machines Of God and MachinII / The Friends And Enemies Of Modern Music, two mature album full of meaning, shacking off the hatred, sadness, fear and rejection. Finding love, god, acceptance, peace, with a touch of bad-ass Hard Rock and social commentary thrown in for good measure. Unfortunately, the world is full of seven year old going on thirty little fairy princesses and man children who just couldn't get their microscopic dead brains around it. So they did what they do best, eat doritos, play guitar out of tune, and bitch, bitch, bitch!

Mary Star Of The Sea, dumb fans from Generation X had become old farts, and refused to admit that Mary Star Of The Sea was as amazing as any Smashing Pumpkins album had ever been. They hated it simply because James and Darcy weren't in the band.

The Future Embrace, took the best of Adore and the best Machina / The Machines Of God, and mixed them to have an amazing album full of love, sadness, and social commentary. Unfortunately, the Generation X Old Farts had written Billy off, and refused to like his music because they were nostalgic dumb-asses, and Hipster Kids would have liked the album, but they had heard of him before, and he kind of famous so he was a sellout.

Zeitgeist, was a heavy Hard Rock album that kicked ass, it had a few flaws but was over all amazing. The dumb-asses who wanted to hear Siamese Dream rehashed were confused, so they went and listened to a Pop Punk Band that had did nothing but release the same album for over twenty years "cough The Offspring cough".

American Gothic, dumb asses who only knew of Smashing Pumpkins Greatest Hits, or their second and third albums, because that's all they could afford buy after drugs, and Hipster shoes, skinny jean, and Emo hair cuts and hair die, said American Gothic didn't sound like Smashing Pumpkins, because it was too soft and in no way resembled Bullet With Butterfly Wings (being dumb asses they didn't know that over half of Smashing Pumpkins songs were either soft songs, sad songs, or ballads)

The Residency Songs, and The 20th Anniversary Tour Songs, these were in large fantastic songs that Generation X Old Farts and Hipster Kids will never hear because they lack the brains to find Nugs.net and enjoy the sweet sadness that is Smashing Pumpkins!

Teargarden By Kaleidoscope, alright I'm gonna be a little less pissed off about this album. This album was either hit or miss, but when it hit it was amazing, Song For A Son, A Stitch In Time, Freak U.S.A., Tom Tom, Lightning Striks, Owata it was great. It may have taken some time to sink in, but it was great. The Generation X Old Farts and Hipster Kids would never take the time to let these songs sink in, because they have the attention span of potato.

Oceania, it would seem as though some people have broken out the crowbar and petroleum jelly and managed free their head from ass's death grip, and can actually enjoy the brilliant music of Billy, Mike, Jeff, and Nichole. But there are still people who grabbed the crazy glue instead of the petroleum jelly and have their heads farther up their ass than ever before and proclaim that Oceania is pure garbage.

I respect the people who don't like something on the grounds that they just don't like it (like the folks on this website who are real fans), but I have respect for the people who even refuse to give something a chance. Peace out ladies and gentlemen!

Yeah, well MCIS is MY favourite album, but I'm sure that's not why BC loves it best. hehe

As for all the albums, to be quite honest they all basically get 10/10 for me, except Zeitgeist, which gets a 7 or at most, an 8. Possibly Machina gets a 9, 'cause there is one song on there I'm not a big fan of Still love the album and Machina II is legendary.

I liked Owata live but I didn't like what they did with. Also that horrendous wrestling video almost killed the song for me lol. It went from very good song to 'this is okay' for me. The funny thing is on Adore there is probably not any song I don't like and it's a beautiful album but I like Machina more, even though there is a song or two I'm not that keen on (Imploding Voice; Crying Tree is better live).

TFE I felt was great for the first half of the album, mediocre for the second half of the album. Mary Star of the Sea I felt was good but could be better.Zeitgest was okay to me, not great, but okay. All the power to people who loved those albums but I just didn't. But like you said we aren't the same as people who dismissed them outright by not even giving them a chance.

I like Oceania, maybe not love it as much of some people do. But I know a few longtime fans that even liked Adore and Machina that hated Oceania. One of my friends gave it a chance but was so angry with the album that he said he wished that he was on the Oceania cruise so he could tell Billy off.

Yeah, "Crying Tree" is actually the song I don't like on that album. I guess when I think about it, it's not a terrible song, but I just never liked it. Yech. I don't know if I've actually heard it played live. Shame on me! "Imploding Voice" is just average, but I guess I can tolerate it more than "Crying Tree" most of the time.

TFE was awesome... in parts. In other parts, for me, it was average. But I guess I'll get into more detail with my album ratings by song, with all that

earthcrossing wrote: Look up the March 12, 2000 show on livearchive.org and you will hear what live Crying Tree sounds like. I thought the effect they had it on it live sounded kind of cool.

Right . Sort of like how some people feel about the song Oceania, awesome in some parts, not so much in others...to bring it back on topic .

Have you ever listened to Billy's piano version of Crying Tree or the live version on the IAGW DVD?
That helped me a lot to embrace the song much more.

DON wrote: I haven't watch the whole residency performance stuff..yikes. I did watch the actual documentary (in the theatres) and that residency rehearsal or whatever in that living room looking place where they did 99 Floors and stuff though.

I have heard the piano version, which was simple but cool. I think it was on their myspace for a while haha.

Eye wrote:
Back then, I ripped the piano version of Crying Tree in pretty decent quality...does anyone need the MP3?

DON wrote: I used to have but I don't know where it is. That would be cool to have .

I'd like it too, for sure Always willing to hear alt. versions that improve a song's status with me.

I agree that this song (actually one of my favs from the album) sounds like it could have been off Machina. It's those minor chords and organs at the start. Mike does some great drumming too on this one!