ThePumpkins.net

Hi.

Since y'all seem to be a group of semi-intelligent Pumpkin fans (compared to Netphoria), I felt it necessary to say something to the fans and Billy Corgan as a whole.

Why are we letting Corgan think this is a good thing? The singles issue, the ranting at concert, the no 'new song' thing, and honestly, an absolute downfall in the musical quality of the Pumpkins. Despite Corgan's voice being back, I don't even get what the hell is going on. G.L.O.W. is atrocious, random rock music with no substance, same for SuperChrist.

The only song they debuted live that was any good was As Rome Burns, and that being because it sounds like Mellon Collie. What's happened is that Zeitgeist actually tried to develop a new Pumpkins sound, and now their new music is actually reverting back to old styles, and not even trying any more. As Rome Burns is great, but it's like MCIS. They are getting worse. We won't hear another song like Stellar or Pomp & Circumstance, because Billy's too hard trying to get on the radio.

I'm sick and tired of Corgan ruining my favorite band. And I was one of those people who followed him through Zeitgeist and the tour, defending him.

MoonlightBleeding wrote:
Semi-intelligent, huh?

MoonlightBleeding wrote:
I don't know, why'd you stay by him if you despise what he's doing? Dump the Pumpkins, man...

I think we are a bunch of individuals who like discussing the Pumpkins without any of the extra fluffy negative crap, like Netphoria...

However, as far as I know, we are all pretty impressed with the new material!

The only thing I can recommend to mend your hurt heart is to just wait and see. We can never really predict what Billy will do next. But if Pumpkins 2.0 isn't for you, sorry dude.

I really love the new material! ...And so I can't really relate to what you're telling us. Sorry!

MoonlightBleeding wrote:
Fuck you.

We don't. Some of us do, just about no-one approves of the strange rants. They used to be good, particularly Machina era. Everything there is subjective as to weather it is a good or bad thing. So even if we were "letting him think [that]," we have every right to. We can approve or disapprove of anything at will. So fuck you for questioning what I approve of.

Okay, so now we know where you stand..

Worse than Zeitgeist? I disagree. I think their quality has been rising since American Gothic, excluding SuperChrist, but that's only one outlier.

How do you know? Are you a clairvoyant? Who's to say that they won't release an epic radio-unfriendly song as a single?

Hey, well I'm sorry you don't like it. It happens.

I choose not to respond to this.

i choose to respond to this.

if being complete assholes is the "intelligence" we lack and netphoria has, then to make it seem more like netphoria for you

GET THE FUCK OUT. YOUR OPINIONS ARE NOT VALUED HERE

thank you.

Youur comments suggest you really know very little about the pumpkins and what they are currently trying to do, so before you start insulting us I think you should have a good look at exactly what you think you know and then come back with some constructive arguments.

MoonlightBleeding wrote:
doesnt seem that way, now does it....

MoonlightBleeding wrote:

billy corgan is your favorite band.

what would the pumpkins be without him? nothing.

Netphoria is too good for threads like this, and they would likely respond with posts like this.

PistolPete wrote:
Peppered with some insults and mockery. Ahhhhh...

The sad thing about first impressions is that you only get one.

Fuck you guys are just bashing this poor little guy. I for one, agree with him. I stuck by Billy through the hope for and dissapointment of Zeitgeist, and even defended him through the tour. But GLOW was the nail in the coffin. It truly makes me ashamed to be a fan and I truly wish that this 'renewal and revival' had never happened. He could have done all this stuff under another name and it would have been fine, but this just isn't pumpkins, and not because of the members, but because of the music.

Can you elaborate on "because of the music"?

G.L.O.W. is one song. I can point out a handful of other horrible SP songs. How can a single song completely reverse your opinion of a band with an absolutely enormous catlogue and back-catlogue? Are you forgetting everything Billy and the Pumpkins have done previous to G.L.O.W. or Zeitgeist? Wow. I feel bad for you.

People just need to learn to stop basing their opinions of the new stuff on how it compares to the old stuff. Alot of people didn't like Zeitgeist because they felt it didn't measure up to the Pumpkins 1988-2000 material. Disregarding everything else, the music from Zeitgeist (including GLOW, Superchrist, newer stuff only played live so far) is 100 times better than most of the music i hear nowadays.

And i'm really getting tired of people saying "this isn't the Pumpkins". You can't (or at least it is pretty hard to) define the Pumpkins. If you say the music is "not the Pumpkins", then what is your definition of "the Pumpkins"?

umm... yeah

Not to mention everything AFTER Zeitgeist is reminiscent of their old work (American Gothic and the new songs). I get the feel and angst of MCIS in As Rome Burns, the emotional lyrics and melody of Adore in Song For A Son, and Owata and 99 Floors seem pretty Siamese Dream/Machina-ish to me (or maybe I'm insane). The March Hare is the most psychadelic SP thing Billy's done in years. His vocals are more or less back, the lyrics are back, and the complexity is back (except with G.L.O.W.). Not to mention nearly all of the new songs are top-notch, in my opinion. How is it not the Pumpkins?

Have you forgotten how diverse this band once was? Listen to Gish & Siamese Dream, then Mellon Collie, then Adore, and finally Machina I&II...then tell me how similar each is. The true fans adjusted to Mellon Collie and Adore, as well as Machina. I still think only someone with a pretty diverse taste in music can truly appreciate the Pumpkins in their entirety.

They tried something new again (although inferior) on Zeitgeist and got shat on. Now, they try to go back to their roots, where it feels like SP again, and people still bash them. Whatever. I'm with this band. You don't have to be.

xblisteredavalon wrote:
My thoughts exactly

TurnsLeftLooksRight wrote:
Very good points here!

MoonlightBleeding wrote:

Hey. Welcome to pumpkins.net btw!

Coz we trust him. He's proven to be right in the past and the band just need time to find their sound. The main thing that's lacking is style- that's what Iha brought to the band imo but again, give them time.

They probably lack substance coz they weren't written to a concept. They're one-off songs which come from riff-tapes.

That might be true. He's clearly striving for success but it seems that Billy's now playing the long game. He tried to play the short game with Zeitgeist.

Time to let him/them go then. If you come across something by them in a year or two's time that you love - welcome back!

I never thought that Pumpkins were getting worse. I loved Zeitgeist/AG/Mellon Collie, whatever... I think every new album/era will have unique qualities to it. Billy is never ruining the band. Just adding more flavor or taste. GLOW didn't have such emotional or existential lyrics, but it was still a kick-ass song.

I think you're being overly-harsh MoonlightBleeding. Billy never ruins the band...

Teej212 wrote:
I believe he said we were more intelligent than netphoria....

But anywho, its a tough topic to talk about. Because you're either a fan of the Pumpkins as a whole or you're a fan of Billy Corgan. Then there's a mix of both.

I think you could've been both before they broke up. But now, you have to be a fan of Billy Corgan. I struggle with most of the new music, I don't get it. It could be Corgan's songwriting is maturing faster than I can keep up.

I'm still waiting for the day that I can pop in Zeitgeist and actually get it.