ThePumpkins.net

DON wrote:
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a bit more aggression, but if BC just can't do it for some reason (I know he's still a grumpy old man! get angry Billy!) he shouldn't force it. That would just come out sounding passionless if he forces it. But imagine a modern SP song in the vein of XYU, hell yeah!

I wouldn't want a studio version of Gossamer honestly. IMO keep that as a live only song because it would probably be hard for them to do it studio justice. I, like Epitome, wouldn't mind a studio recorded "As Rome Burns" for the "double album" though.

Billy is just 21 songs away from completing Teargarden by Kaleidyscope! (19 if you count "Teargarden Theme" and "Cottonwood Symphony".)

^The double album could knock all of that out!

kjrain12 wrote:
I really, really do hope that they choose to do a double album. That would be awesome.

^I'd like one, but I'm really not sure if they've got it in em to pull it off at this point.

kjrain12 wrote:
Clarify KJ
What Is It Do You Think They're Lacking?
At This Point? What Is It That Makes You Feel That Way?

^Well it's almost hard to clarify. I just don't think Billy has that "hunger" in him anymore. Back then he was out to prove something, now he's probably doing it because he enjoys doing it, he doesn't have anything else to prove. I also don't think Billy is in the right mindset, Billy seemed to make the best music when he was sad and angry which I don't think he is anymore. Plus, I don't think Billy is one the top of his game vocal wise or lyrically anymore. *cough*Quasar*cough*

These are just a few reasons I'm VERY skeptical that they'd be able to make a good double album at this point. That's not an insult either as many bands, even at the top of their career, weren't able to make a good double album. It's just a difficult endeavor to make nearly 2 hours of music that's all worth listening to.

kjrain12 wrote:
Well, Maybe Not That "Hunger" He Had In His Youth, But I Think He Has Something Evolving In Him. I Think This Has To Do With
Him Feeling Confortable Once Again To Be In A Band Since 1996 (?). Lyrically, I Think Here And There He Stands Firm Enough. Vocally, Not So Much :/ He Might Not Have Anything To Prove, But I Like How He Feels He And The Current Band Are Continuing A Legacy. How They Are Emodying The Spirit Of The Original Band To Continue To Make Music As They Feel.

Yeah, at least it's a band again.

True, it is a band again, but I highly doubt that they will be able to pull off a good double album now. It's really not even needed, a single album would do just fine. (as most double albums could've been better as a single album anyway)

kjrain12 wrote: Not Mellon Collie!
This isn't just a perfect, flawless double album on it's own but also the 90s most challenging rock album.

kjrain12 wrote:
He has plenty to prove, and he knows it. His fanbase practically hates him and rejects everything new he puts out as 'not standing up'. I'm not saying that all of the 2007-2012 material is amazing. Because really, it isn't. Oceania, to me, is the first impressive studio effort by him since TheFutureEmbrace, as well as the best since Machina. In my opinion. I also hold to the view that Zeitgeist & Teargarden part 1 were horrendous.

What I'm getting at is this: whether the fans are being unfair at times or he himself is incompetent at times doesn't matter. It is all the same in his mind. He is still trying to escape the old band while holding tight to the moniker, and is determined to show the critics that he was 'right all along'. Billy is all too willing to shit on every nostalgic fan's parade, if it means he might eventually comes to a point where he does something right, and he gets people on his side.

Forever standing still in the shadow of himself. And no matter how fast he runs, he will always be standing still to some.

If that isn't having something to prove, then I am at a loss.

As far as him 'having it' vocally, he doesn't. His singing right now is the best it can get at this stage in his life, and career. He is getting older, and is of different experience, wisdom and weathered tale than his younger self. Of course he will not sing in the same fashion, if he is not feeling as he once did. I will still take his vocal style on Oceania over Zeitgeist ANY day of the week. It was refreshing to hear.

Lyrically, he might not be penning any Mayos, Blank Pages, Rotten Apples or Let Me Give The World To Yous, but he is far from bad. With all due respect, you chose the album track with the tinniest of voices lyrically. Quasar? Why not criticize a stronger song such as Oceania, Pale Horse, Glissandra or Wildflower? Lines like these? Where he truly doesn't have it anymore?

"Skirt the cliffs of your illusion
Find the faith on me
My mistake as the last remaining soldier
Was to take the place of you
Love the way
Love the way and learn
Try the way
Cast off your indecision
Face to face we breathe"

"Trace the face of love unseen
Don't shadow up what we mean
Uncover what we're meant to be
And come unlace your light"

"Infernal ides
I trim the wick so fine
To carry forth your light
Comfort me
What will leave will leave
Comfort me to stem the tide
Wasted along the way
I'm wasted along the way
I'm wasted along the way to reach you"

"Floating away I think I'll stay as refused
Finding a way to make the loss seem new
Floating away I think I'll change next to you
Finding a way to make the loss seem new
Cause you don't deserve me
But I deserve you
Flies for the may queen
But life for the prince
If nobody wins
Then what gets lost?
If I've got you"



To me, the clearest statements of his rebellion towards expectation lie within Panopticon & The Celestials. Especially this opening segment from the latter:

"On the day that you were born
They built an empire off a scream
I can't explain
Endlessly they'll set you free
Give you reason to believe
This empty place"

And while that bit is quite simplistic as well as profound, it speaks waves. When Billy came to be as who we now know as the ever-tortured soul. When songs like Disarm and Today emitted a scream so discernible to the world, that the band was projected to massive new heights. His greatest of pains in written poetry, and sung aloud, leading to his greatest successes. A whole legion of followers and fans who believe in him as a musician, as an artist who could speak to them on levels others could not. The whole thing is baffling. They hold him back as he progresses, they beg him to progress, and then mourn the result. A never-ending cycle. An...empty place, if you will.

This same idea of his pain healing others and putting him on a pedestal seems to resurface in Glissandra for but a moment. The heartache of a love lost, the theme of Oceania. A hurt he has not so properly addressed in his music since the Zwan days. A sort of pain, and here we embrace his change of pace:

"A pluck on spiders strings
Gutters form the stars
Children cry out proud
As embers blast my heart
Broken where I'd stop"

Not arguing anything. Just mindful observation, and the statement of it.

Double post. Please delete.

ChaoticLull wrote:
That's what I say.
Oceania could go a bit deeper but it stands up well compared to older efforts.
Great to bring in TheFutureEmbrace; this one always sounded to me like some fast Adore era songs and is a lost SP album by any means.

DON wrote:
Yes, yes Don, MCIS is one of the FEW exceptions, but you know what I mean.