ThePumpkins.net

ghostchild wrote:

venison wrote:
yikes. sounds like you don't give billy any credit for what he's doing at all. considering how rich he is, he could sit back and live in luxury the rest of his life, but instead he continues to release his music to an unappreciative fan base and to general negativity, all the while losing his own fortune investing into the album further. If that doesn't speak to you about his devotion to music... well. Showering fans with gimmicks and clinging to old tropes just to tarnish his reputation and garner criticism, doesn't seem to be a big payoff unless he really means it.

I realize that there are some you like off the bat and some you don't, I've been stricken with that many times. But more often than not I find there is always something redeeming in anything despite first impressions. I hated WWMM at first, more than the next guy. And 1979. and Hummer. Rocket, Soma, Geek USA, Sweet Sweet, All of Machina 1, all of Zeitgeist... dozens and dozens that didn't grab me immediately but rather took weeks or months to sink in. all it took was some critical listens to change my opinion (and consequently how I felt/my emotional connection toward the song.) The way you all are reacting to Teargarden was the way I reacted to Siamese Dream when I first got it. No lie. I liked Cherub Rock and Quiet, and I thought the rest were shallow, simple, pretentious, and repetitive. It took me about 10 months for the entire album to sink in, one song at a time. I would have to force myself to listen to Geek USA, and I would trudge through Luna if my hands weren't free. It just took time, and viewing them from different perspectives. What if Hummer wasn't just a corny trash filler but instead a droney ode to boredom and love, that I could relate to on some level? What if Silverfuck had more meaning than the 1 chord + screaming track I took it for? What if Luna, despite all of its open chord simplicity and overly syrupy/cheesy lyrics, could perhaps be relaying a message so profound it needn't be complicated? The entire album took a lot of understanding on my part and ended up being deeper and more complex than I could ever have imagined from the outset.

So when you all say "I gave it 2 listens, don't like it, gonna shelve it" you're not being fair to Billy and you're not being fair to yourself. Don't you think that if you were feeling happy and content you could relate to WWMM, if not for the lyrics then just the joyful tone of the song? Couldn't Astral Planes be a great track if you calmed down and felt a little meditative, stopped pining for the old big sound, and just relaxed and let it flow? Perhaps you could connect to Freak if you found a context for the chorus in your own life? It may not be your cup of tea at first but if you don't even try to get a grasp on it, what it means, what its context is... I mean, you are fans of this band, right? I don't understand why their every attempt is summarily dismissed when it is coming from the same place as all your favorites came from. That "it" factor is still there, you just gotta look harder for it. There is something in each of these songs that make them uniquely Billy's, that have the soul of SP.


IMO.

My new book, "Chats with SP fans," is coming out next friday at a retailer near you >_< keep em coming guys, this is getting interesting to say the least.

Sikamikanico999 wrote:
dude i would so buy that book

Civil War of the Ghost Children... unleash the undead armies!

Nice essay Sikman I think you're getting better as you go along..

Some SP were growers, others I liked straight away.

Growers
*Gish
*Siamese Dream
*Pisces Iscariot
*Dawn Till Dusk
*Machina 2
*Zeitgeist

Straight Away
*Twilight to Starlight
*Adore
*Machina

+ Teargarden so far
Growers:
*A Stitch In Time
*Spangled
*Tom Tom

Straight away:
*A Song For A Son
*WWMM
*Astral Planes
*The Fellowship

Jury's out:
*Lightening Strikes

Not happening:
*Freak

I think the major SP fan frustration isn't that the music isn't up to scratch so to speak, but that it isn't up to scratch with the masses of unreleased material we've already heard - that isn't being given A Grade recording treatment.
Also - Billy hasn't kept his dates for releasing the songs, and repetively tests his fan base's patience with false rumours and false promises.

Sikamikanico999 wrote:
For me, they simply are not as good on a fundamental level. The guitar riffs aren't as inventive as on SD or MCIS, the drums may sound a bit heavy, but there's a miniscule fraction of the technical skill involved in what Mikey boy plays compared to what Jimmy did.....which makes the drumming boring to me. The lyrics have not once been interesting or made a statement of any kind that resonates with me. The "catchy hooks" are pandering to a pop sound designed to stick in people's heads just for the sake of cutting through the clutter, not for the sake of making a statement like he used to do. All of this adds up to the SP of today no longer has "it" in my book. I hope one day he puts out a song that changes my mind, but nothing from Teargarden has worked for me the way SP music used to.

This opinion is not based on one or two passing listens of these songs. I've worn them out, trying as hard as I can to like them. If you're trying to sell me on the idea that this music is fundamentally equal to SD or MCIS, you're wasting your effort.

I ain't trying to sell you on anything. I'm just throwing out my experiences and hypotheticals, that you can make of what you will. I'm just saying the songs don't have to be comparable to works of a grand magnitude in order to be simply enjoyable. Where lyrics may have a cut out purpose or meaning, (that is easy to determine and therefore not like/like) if you think the music and the catchy hooks don't resonate emotionally or make a statement, that is your perception of it, not Billy's intention. Whether or not an A-B-C-D-B-C lick carries any emotional weight solely depends on your context for said lick.

And to make my opinion plain, I think the first 2 EPs are nowhere near the level of SD or MCIS as a cohesive work. But they are definitely heading in that direction. EP 1 was a C, EP 2 would be B in my book, and I really feel that this, Lightning Strikes, is an A that is on the level of quality of MCIS. Poppier, not as heavy or layered, but nonetheless it is a solid, high quality song. I can only imagine that after the next and final song of "EP3" the new direction will contain A+ material that Billy has been honing on tour and in the studio for years, that will live up/surpass to the old works. Every indicator points to this conclusion.
FrankB said: wrote:
Those are very good points, but like I said, if there are any indicators, Billy has been testing the water for the last year and is saving the best for last To respond to the false promises... I deal with it by realizing Billy doesn't owe me shit, he's perfectly entitled to do whatever the fuck he wants and I'm just thankful he would be kind enough to give away a free gift once he feels he is done with the product. Plus I've been in his shoes many a time, I say one thing and through a series of events and/or intentional changes it just doesn't happen when or like I said it would. Those be the breaks.

In other words: shit happens, and that applies to anyone, so I don't resent him if a song comes out 3 months after the last. As much as SP is central to his life, he probably has a huge amount of other things to deal with at any other given time. so...

I understand he doesn't owe us anything, but when a person says he's going to do something and then doesn't do it (without explanation) that's just poor in my book. He does have a relationship with his fans that needs to be cared for and nurtured, if he wants people to respect him as an individual, and not just for his music.
It's true by now we know the 'one song per month' deal isn't in effect, but I think his facebook behavior at Christmas was rather insensitive. Many SP fans were eagerly awaiting his picks for favourite songs from each era (as he had already refused to complete the fan voted Q & A as previously promised) -
And then after starting out with Siva, he just deleted his account without a word of warning.
Why?
Did something offend him?
Did some fans make him unhappy?
I and many other followers, do not know the answer to this - because our leading man didn't feel obliged to answer.
In other words, after building a unique connection and banter with fans; he severed the relationship in a cold and heartless manner.

i will say this, i think the thing i'm looking forward to the most is the supposed "Making of Teargarden" dvd that's planned to be included in the finished box set album... then maybe we will see some answers. i have been wondering what exactly he's been up to lately

I'm actually starting to like this song..

Pug92 wrote:
I would bet you money we never see that.

ghostchild wrote:
I was thinking that when I read that this morning

Lol, if he ever did release a "The Making of Teargarde" dvd there would be so many outtakes that he would never want anyone to ever see. I could see him being a total control freak and probably sometimes a very mean person to work with. Having all that power and everyone agreeing with what you decide to do...no pressure. But i would still love to see something like that butas the above poster said, i really doubt that ever happening.