ThePumpkins.net

Gah, Chicken Fried you're name makes me hungry!

I remember that song from a movie I saw like 15 years ago with Jonathan Taylor Thomas and Chevy Chase, where he was trying to be his new stepdad and they went camping together or something and Jonathan Taylor Thomas would keep playing tricks on him, and he gave him the indian name "squatting dog", but then eventually comes to accept him and, perhaps, love him!

I also remember that song from that Pure Moods CD commercial

Haha, good song.

venison wrote:
I remember a song from that movie too. It was called Everybody Dance (Something) ...

Rivers Cuomo wrote:
Don't even get me started about the 'moonlandings' ..

frankB wrote: Ah, Everybody Dance Now. A true classic indeed

What they hey, here it is just for kicks. I'm listening to it now!

PersianBellyDancer wrote:
Like Frank B said, I don't bash them or insult them for their taste in music but shit taste in music is shit taste in music. It amazes me that there is noone in my school who is into listening to music like I am. Sometimes I just feel like discussing a bands discography with someone and then I'll look around the room and think "Damn, no one here is familiar with their discography." When I ask someone what they like for music and they respond with bands I don't particularly care for (MCR, Linkin Park, most hair metal, AC/DC, Kiss) I'll usually say, "Oh that's cool" or nod my head. In other words, I'll try to change the subject.

Well, at least I can always discuss The Beatles and Led Zeppelin with my English teacher.

Right now listening to:

Ministry - N.W.O.

kjrain12 wrote:
Yeah, but listen to yourself. The mere fact that you decide not to voice the fact that you think they are retarded to them doesn't mean you're respecting their opinions, it just means that you're choosing to insult them behind their back. The fact is you still think you're better than them because you listen to music that you like, and they listen to music that they like.

My question for you is WHY is it "shit taste"? Is there some way of quantifying the quality of music that I don't know about?

Oh God, you guys need to stop this music taste conversation because all of you have sounded ignornat and/or douchey so far.And I know that i sound ignorant and douchey right now.

Hmm.
I believe everyone has a right to love their own music - and God bless them
if they do -
But I think there has to be some kind of impartial scale to determine what is good or bad music.
MCR is not my favourite band either, and so a lot of people like them.
I respect their musical preference, but if anyone of those devouts started comparing MCR to Pink
Floyd, I'd start laughing. Why? Is it just my own personal preference that I think Pink Floyd doesn't
deserve such unworthy comparison?

I think as a Pumpkin fan, and a fan of alternative music, we need to stand up for our opinions. Those
people with poor taste that Rivers is defending, aren't great people anyhow. There was this one I went to
high school with, and we were sort of friends - but not in a big way - and he liked Limp Bizkit, Korn and
Slipknot all the way. I once wore a U2 t-shirt in front of him and his friends, and he never spoke to me
again after that. What I'm trying to say is - they have their clique, and we have ours.

And another thing is that I've liked the Pumpkins since I was twelve years old, and will no doubt love them
when I'm sixty. But I seriously doubt teens who jammed Slipknot in their heyday, will go on to playing their
CDs over and over till they drop dead. Why?
Cause that music is just part of a fad, and people follow them because they think they're cool; until something
cooler comes along and they drop them. Those fans don't really LOVE their music the way we do.

IMO

That's definitely an unfair assumption Frank. I myself think My Chemical Romance are one of the greatest pop/punk bands out there, and U2 are terrible. You base everything off of fan base. And how do you know Slipknot fans don't love their music the way you do?

I'll admit I scoff whenever I see someone wearing a band t-shirt I deem unworthy, but I would never call them out on it. I remember when I was into a lot of pop/punk music. It got me to start playing guitar and writing songs. And I'm talking about the really bad shit.

Just because a band is popular doesn't mean they're not good. Pink Floyd are immortal because of what they established, but maybe some people don't get their music. As long as they can respect them for what they accomplished, I'm okay with it.

I feel like these people you're talking about are the people just getting into music and haven't ventured past the mainstream. Take Epitome, he owns over 4 million CD's and he can still see Green Day are a pretty good band.

I read Pitchfork on a daily basis, and I think you're being more pretentious then them. It's a sad day when people can't respect bands because of their fanbase.

End rant. Stop this fucking discussion.

Hi Ryon.

I hope I haven't upset you or anything; you're taking this pretty hard.
Again I say that I respect people without basing too much importance on musical
taste; and it is extremley rare that I would scoff at people for wearing music
t-shirts.

Of course, bands aren't bad or good based on their popularity - I don't know where
I have said something ambiguous to make you think that. As far as Green Day (since you brought them up)
I've only listened to two or three albums and they seem to verge from average to pretty good, and they have
some stand out songs. I would never think ill of someone who liked them. I consider that alternative music anyway.

U2.. Hey they're not my favourite band either. I like a lot of their old stuff, and I consider them very mainstream,
my point being in the situation that I demonstrated - that some fans are so focused on their own music that any other
kind of musical opinion just makes them sick. I took it rough back in the day when those guys were putting down Smashing Pumpkins
and Pearl Jam, like they were the gayest shit you could listen to just because it wasn't part of their fad.
So I guess I've got a pretty gun-ho approach to people who want to dismiss certain bands.

Here's an interesting question:
Is the appreciation and criticism of music comparable to the appreciation and criticism of film?
Both are representations of art, but who is to judge what is a bad song, and what is a bad movie?
Is there a way to judge film outside of personal preference, that you can't judge music with?

I think that's a really good point Ryon, most bands do merit some measure of respect, if not for whether how sublime or crappy you think their music is, then at least for the fact that they've made a connection with a good amount of people, so they must be doing something right.

But sometimes I wonder that too, if there really can be some kind of objective, or at least well-agreed upon, consensus scale for judging the "artistic merits" of certain music. Maybe there is, but particular to each genre. Like I wouldn't measure the merits of MCR or Slipknot on the same scale I would use for classical music, or traditional Chinese music, or disco

What if Slipknot made an album full of classical Chinese disco..?

Good point. But I wouldn't resume the merits of many musical genres against each other. I just think everyone is too pretentious these days (including myself). I mean I love music reviews but they seems pointless when you think about it. You're going to like what you like and nobody's gonna change it. And that applies to the whole cinema thing.

Dorovo wrote:
sounds scary, but i would probably check it out for the WTF factor.

Rivers Cuomo wrote:
Think they're retarded? No, I don't think anything like that. I just think that my taste in music is better. If their favorite bands are Nickelback, Bon Jovi, and Creed then I'm going to believe my taste is better. It may be an elitist or douche thing to do, but that's what I do, and I'm sure many of you do it as well. (whether you admit to it or not) Insult them behind their back? No. Chuckle about it to myself when I get home? Maybe. If their favorite bands are Nickelback, Bon Jovi etc, I really don't think they care what I think of their taste in music anyway. I don't think I'm better than someone if I think their taste in music is bad but I DO think I'm better at identifying good music then they are. You say I listen to music I like and they listen to music they like, but a large percent of the time, if people are largely listening to modern rock and pop groups, they have likely not experimented listening to different music to REALLY SEE WHAT THEY LIKE. You know what I mean?

Well, the ways I qualify good music? I'll give a few ways: (this is mostly for rock/alternative/pop)

-Innovation - Is the music innovative? Does it take influences and make a sound all its own? Is it forward-thinking?

-Technical Musicianship - Here is an obvious one. If one guitarist is playing a three chord song and the other is playing a song with over 30 chords with intricate/complex bridges and solos, then the music the second guitarist is playing obviously takes more talent. Not trying to say that complex musicianship makes better music, because it doesn't, but it definitely helps if the musicians are good and competent at what they do.

-Influence - If I'm listening to an older record, influence is always something to think about. While some music made in the 60s/70s may not sound so new and groundbreaking to us now, in the 60s/70s it was completely new and innovative. For example, if so many musicians hadn't been influenced by The Stooges, they may have been mostly forgotten and wouldn't be the legends they are today. Another example would be Dark Side Of The Moon. While the album is timeless, many of the studio tricks used on it are widely used today, but back then it was a fairly new concept, therefore credit to the album is definitely due. Yet another example would be how OK Computer and In The Aeroplane Over The Sea influenced so many musicians already that they are both considered classic albums by many.

-Thought-Provoking? - Here's a good one. Is the music thought provoking? This is largely on a lyrical level but can also be with vocal melodies, song structure etc. If a band is singing about going out and partying with friends then that's certainly not as thought provoking as contemplations about life after death, war/politics, internal struggles, and human regression.

I could go on, but I don't want to bore you. When these combine (along with multiple other factors I don't feel like listing), they make what is in my opinon, good music.

@Ryon: So you like pop-punk eh? Honestly, I don't care for most of it, much of it I find boring. I don't care for MCR in the least, but there are 2 pop-punk bands I do like. The Buzzcocks and The Offspring. (The Damned too if they count) The Offspring declined after Smash but I still like them alot for nostalgic reasons. You hate U2 Ryon? I actually like U2, well at least the War - Achtung Baby era I do. They've made some great albums. I will admit, they are very overrated, but I do like 'em. After Achtung it was mostly downhill. Zooropa was mostly a borefest, (I believe Zooropa was mostly cuts that didn't make Achtung) I never listened to Pop, All That You Can't Leave Behind was an improvement over Zooropa but it seemed like U2 had regressed to a late 80s U2 again. "How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb" was also disappointing and felt bland and uninspired. Plus, I'm completely fed up with Vertigo. I still haven't had the chance to listen to their most recent effort (No Line On The Horizon) anyone know if its any good?

(I hope everything is coherent in this post, becuase its midnight over here in the east coast)

Okay, to sum it up: We agree to disagree-but we respect each others opinions.

Ryon likes MCR and I don't. Big deal, doesn't make him a bad person it makes him a fan.

Sooo lets move on to a cleaner subject! Politics anyone?

Kjrain12 - I agree with absolutely everything you've said (except some minor disputes regarding U2's Zooropa ). You certainly argued the case far better than I was doing..

PersianBellyDancer wrote:
haha, yeah, i'm not keen on that band either, but to each their own. i do tend to poke fun at people for loving MCR and Greenday (my mouth probably set this thread in this direction), but in my defense i mostly just like to talk crap and its habit from giving my brother crap for his emo music tastes, which he always subjected the rest of the family to by blasting his tunes. he thinks the Pumpkins are shit and i think his stuff is shit but we are siblings so i have the right to hate.

but yeah, lets all be friends again and move on to a cheerier subject. discussing "music tastes" much like discussing politics, religion, or Nirvana in these parts leaves everyone sounding like a douche.



currently thinking, i just saw this clip today and now plan on finding four helpless ponies i can convert into my own set as a project for retarded shits.

Hoomii is the best music.